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    Default nonmaterial

    Hey lads. It's me again. Now I am wondering how could you translate this subtitle into spanish

    "the nonmaterial base of discourse"

    The context is the studies held in critical discourse analysis and critical applied linguistics. I get the idea, but I am still without a hint of how to put it in a natural way in spanish.

    Here there is more context

    It is a fragment that has this subtitle, in the section Ideology, Discourse, Truth and Power, from chapter IV "The politics of text" of the book Critical Applied Linguistics, by Alaistair Pennycook.

    It talks about the objections Foucault posted to the cannon notions of ideology.
    He critiques the common association of power with cominant groups, so that he problematizes the essentialist given conception of power, regarding langauge.
    He refuses the stance created by critical modernism that, according to him, has obscured the way forward a plentiful development of critical applied linguistics.

    The matter of concern is that the word nonmaterial base is not pronounced anymore, though explained.

    Thanx
    And Old

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    Default Re: nonmaterial

    "base inmaterial" is not correct?

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    Default Re: nonmaterial

    I have also heard intangible as a translation for nonmaterial but I'm not sure if the context would be proper. Rgds,
    Realmente, el destino del mundo depende, en primer lugar, de los estadistas y, en segundo lugar, de los intérpretes.
    Trygve Halvdan Lie

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    Default Re: nonmaterial

    If I understand correctly the author is using nonmaterial in the context of not being germain to the issue, i.e., immaterial or irrelevant.


    P.S. Sandra

    I think if you applied intangible in this case it would mean vague or elusive...perhaps hard to understand. Generally, something intangible is nonmaterial in the physical sense, i.e., you can't touch or feel it.

    Saludos!
    vicente

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    Default Re: nonmaterial

    Good points you've reached over here, I sincerly appreciate your help. Vicente, I'm pretty sure it is not aimed to mean irrelevant, I understand the context, I don't know is what word to use...
    What Pennycook (the author) aims is to show the base of discourse that is not drawn on a materialist view of power, language and social relations (e.g. Marx's stances regarding these all), so I think irrelevant ain't fits, but thanx for caring about this.

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    Default Re: nonmaterial

    Andrés...Andrés...this kind of language
    so I think irrelevant ain't fits, but thanx
    doesn't fit this forum and much less the academic topic you are dealing with.

    In regard to nonmaterial, you may have to translate it as:

    la base del discurso no materialista/antimaterialista
    la base discursiva no conforme con la visión materialista

    As you know in Spanish, we need longer sentences to convey in full the meaning of the much shorter sentences in English.

    Suerte!

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    Moderator SandraT's Avatar
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    Default Re: nonmaterial

    Morning everybody!
    Truth is I did not read the context or the whole post! guilty of charges. sorry, not enough time yesterday and seems like today it will be like that too. I guess what I was translating at that moment influenced me too much (cultural world heritage) Hope the final verdict has been reached and I won't post anymore without reading the whole post first. I am a mess!!! hahaha
    Have a nice weekend!
    Realmente, el destino del mundo depende, en primer lugar, de los estadistas y, en segundo lugar, de los intérpretes.
    Trygve Halvdan Lie

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    Default Re: nonmaterial

    Sandra, don't feel bad!! Your answer was as good as any based on the question. To tell the truth, I'm still not sure what the context is. I am not familiar with Critical Applied Linguistics, by Alaistair Pennycook and I can barely make sense of Andres' explanations but it appears that Andres thinks nonmaterial base is being used in the sense of materialism, rather than in the sense of something not being pertinent or essential. If that is the case then it would seem to me it would have been written as "nonmaterialistic base". (in which case I think Cotty has given the best answer.)


    Saludos! and you have a nice weekend as well!

    Edit: To me nonmaterial means something that is irrelevant or immaterial like a nonmaterial response to a question; while nonmaterialistic means something not related to material things (money, property, possessions, etc.)
    vicente

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    Default Re: nonmaterial

    Look what a nice discusson qe have reached over here. Doubtless I made a good decision when signing in in this forum. I am going to make myself clear: I think that the best option so far I aim to use is Cotty's last recommendation, because it is quite clear for me (and it'd be for you if you read the text) it refers to what A. Pennycook is talking about in this pàrt of his text. Nonetheless, for me it is important what Vicente, as a native speaker, is explaining to us over here; that was exactly what logically (by cognates) one would think nonmaterial could mean. Now, my concern is that probably Pennycook aimed to mean nonmaterialistic but by some reason he made up his mind for nonmaterial. I thought not this term could have such an underlying translation dilemma. Once again, thanks so much, mates.

    And Old
    PS: Cotty, thanks for the corrections about my unpolite english; it's just I love street english as much as I do the academic and polite one; it might well be an equal source of linguistic knowledge and scope.

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    Default Re: nonmaterial

    so I think irrelevant ain't fits
    Andres, it isn't that your English is impolite, it's just bad. "ain't fits" has no meaning. As you surely know, ain't is not formal English; however, I, myself, use it for emphasis once in awhile. Many people do. I often say "if it ain't broke, don't fix it!". So in my opinion, if you want to use ain't it is acceptable but use it properly, although English teachers like Cotty might tell you there is no proper way to use it. Nonetheless, it is hard to deny it's existence in everyday English in uneducated circles. It is a form of "am not" or "are not" (I ain't; they ain't) or "is not" or "will not" (it ain't). Ain't is NOT a form of "to do" as you used it. You should have said "irrelevant doesn't fit" or, if you want to continue to use "street English", "it don't fit" or "it ain't gonna fit".

    Frankly, and I mean no offense, I'd advise you to learn to use proper English before you get into street talk. It looks silly if you misuse it.

    Saludos
    vicente

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