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  1. #11
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    Default Re: nonmaterial

    Cool, mate, I didn't know that, I have thought it may virtually replace any negative form in English, it was what I was told probably by a not well prepared tecaher; I appreciate your teaching... Now, what do you think about the discussion we've reached here?

  2. #12
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    Default Re: nonmaterial

    Andres, it isn't that your English is impolite, it's just bad. "ain't fits" has no meaning.
    I agree. It is mainly incorrect, even for slang or street talk. And although when I first read it, I noticed it right away, I didn't want to get into the details of it, mainly because I don't think Andrés really sees the importance of it. So, I decided to point out the fact that his way of writing was not appropriate to the occasion.

    ...I often say "if it ain't broke, don't fix it!".
    This is an idiomatic expression used even by people who wouldn't normally use ain't.

    So in my opinion, if you want to use ain't it is acceptable but use it properly, although English teachers like Cotty might tell you there is no proper way to use it.
    Of course there is aproper way to use it. The proper way is how it is intended to be used, i.e. in place of the verb to be. Although I mainly teach standard, proper, formal, scientific and academic English, I am well aware of slang and the informal and colloquial usage of language as part of normal conversation.

    ...It is a form of "am not" or "are not" (I ain't; they ain't) or "is not" or "will not" (it ain't). Ain't is NOT a form of "to do" as you used it. You should have said "irrelevant doesn't fit" or, if you want to continue to use "street English", "it don't fit" or "it ain't gonna fit".
    Absolutely. But even if he had used it correctly, and even if he likes that kind of street talk. It is undeniable that this is not the place to do it. Part of mastering a language is to know when and where to use certain kinds of forms. The thread that Andrés started is of a very academic nature and it calls for vocabulary of the same level.

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    Default Re: nonmaterial

    This is an idiomatic expression used even by people who wouldn't normally use ain't.
    Certainly, it has become an expression used by many but there are numerous other expressions in which people use ain't for emphasis which are not necessarily idiomatic expressions. Several others could be considered as such, like. ain't it a shame; ain't no way; ain't what it used to be; but I wonder at what point they become "idiomatic" instead of simply the way people like to talk. Many people, depending a lot on where one was raised. will not use ain't in any situation. I have a lot of Canadian friends and I have never heard one of them say ain't...not once... and they are ordinary folk and not particularly well-educated. They just don't use the word. I consider myself fairly well educated but I am not afraid to use ain't when it serves the purpose of making a point. For instance, I might say "I ain't gonna do that" (instead of I will not or am not) because it adds flavor and emphasis in informal conversation and I know the people I'm talking to are not going to think I slept through English classes. I think it is mainly because I was raised in the South where the word is commonly used.

    Of course there is aproper way to use it. The proper way is how it is intended to be used, i.e. in place of the verb to be. Although I mainly teach standard, proper, formal, scientific and academic English, I am well aware of slang and the informal and colloquial usage of language as part of normal conversation.
    Cotty, I did not mean to suggest that you didn't know there was an acceptable use of the word. However, I'm not sure I'd call it proper . I meant that most English teachers don't care for the word. At least, not any of the ones I ever met. It has only become "semi-acceptable" in the last couple of decades. In my days in school the word ain't was simply not recognized and we were taught that it was bad English and any English teacher, and most mothers, would chastize you for its use and I suspect they would still do so in class today...at least I would hope so. It's slang, nothing more and I really wouldn't recommend its use by anybody, particularly those who are studying and learning to speak English. I'd tell them that if it is not already in their vocabulary, don't put it there.
    vicente

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    Senior Member Cotty's Avatar
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    Default Re: nonmaterial

    My dearest Vicente, we can be here all day and we know how much Andrés enjoys our little exchanges which he considers nothing more than idle talk and completely irrelevant to the issue at hand

    ...there are numerous other expressions in which people use ain't for emphasis which are not necessarily idiomatic expressions. Several others could be considered as such, like. ain't it a shame; ain't no way; ain't what it used to be; but I wonder at what point they become "idiomatic" instead of simply the way people like to talk.
    Well, they become expressions or sayings when people start using them as a unit that has its own meaning further to the meaning of the individual components.


    Cotty, I did not mean to suggest that you didn't know there was an acceptable use of the word. However, I'm not sure I'd call it proper
    I am not saying that using ain't is proper. I said proper not in the sense that is a correct word to use, but in the sense that if you are going to use it, use it correctly as a substitute of to be and not for instance, as a substitute of to do.

    ...most English teachers don't care for the word. At least, not any of the ones I ever met....
    I don't care for the word, never ever ever use it, and certainly never teach it or encourage its use, but that doesn't mean I am oblivious to the fact that it is used, whether I approve of it or not.

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    My dearest Vicente, we can be here all day and we know how much Andrés enjoys our little exchanges which he considers nothing more than idle talk and completely irrelevant to the issue at hand
    Mi querida Cotty, Andrés must know by now that, once started, these threads belong to the forum and they often provoke exchanges not related to the original post and do not require that he participate further if he chooses not to, and if he doesn't get it now, he will sooner or later. If he is an intelligent young man, as I suspect he is, he will realize that these exchanges could teach him things well beyond his original question.

    I don't care for the word, never ever ever use it, and certainly never teach it or encourage its use, but that doesn't mean I am oblivious to the fact that it is used, whether I approve of it or not.
    Ves! You have the soul of an English teacher!
    vicente

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    Default Re: nonmaterial

    cool, you are no longer my thread-mates, you have become my masters, it is cool to have these discussions, now I see it; I just hope you to keep on sharing all that knowledge with us, the "beginners". Thanx a lot, specially by the point reached regarding the former issue of the thread; it'd be lovely if we continue talking about that, and if you keep on correcting me, so that I can learn much more.

    And Old

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