A good friend and I were discussing que signífiga la palabra "gringo" and its origen. We learned that it had a different meaning to each of us. What does it mean to you?
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A good friend and I were discussing que signífiga la palabra "gringo" and its origen. We learned that it had a different meaning to each of us. What does it mean to you?
I know in other Latin American countries it's different (and I will let THEM explain), but in Argentina we don't use it as a way to identify an American living in our country (we call these "yanquis", not in any way connected to the Civil War, or anything disrespectful or pejorative). if any, it applies to any foreigner (and in the past, mostly Italians, whom we call "tanos" at present).
what I'm really curious about is the origin... any ideas or information, vicente?
Until now I thought gringo was a word created by the Mexicans during the Mexican-American War of the 1840s. I had heard a story that Mexican citizens protesting the presence of American troops in Mexico City carried signs and shouted "Green Go Home!" (a reference to the green uniforms of the Americans).Quote:
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Originally Posted by lauracipolla
I have heard the word commonly used in Central America to identify a white U.S. citizen. I don't know if it might also apply to Canadians and other North Americans regardless of color. In my experience it is not necessarily derogatory. That depends on the manner in which it is used.
I have heard the same story vicente.
And I agree with you about the kind of people we imagine is a gringo: a white man/woman, never a black, a chinese or a latin one, no matter if they are Americans.
This is what the RAE says:
gringo, ga.
(Etim. disc.).
1. adj. coloq. Extranjero, especialmente de habla inglesa, y en general hablante de una lengua que no sea la española. U. t. c. s.
2. adj. coloq. Dicho de una lengua: extranjera. U. t. c. s. m.
3. adj. Am. Mer., Cuba, El Salv., Hond. y Nic. estadounidense. Apl. a pers., u. t. c. s.
4. adj. Ur. inglés (‖ natural de Inglaterra). U. t. c. s.
5. adj. Ur. ruso (‖ natural de Rusia). U. t. c. s.
6. m. y f. Bol., Hond., Nic. y Perú. Persona rubia y de tez blanca.
7. m. coloq. Lenguaje ininteligible.
Hi everyone! Yes, the word is used in Argentina. Of course words change as time goes by. Currently, I think that the most important fact regarding the term (at least this is my feeling) is that the person does not fully "match" the environment. There is something that makes one feel that the person does not belong to a culture (of course, a foreigner does not know every single custom in another country). Perhaps, that is why in many places they use the word to refer to white people. You notice them immediately.
However, I wouldn't use this word. It's a term you may hear from people in their fifties or sixties (or even older).
Your story on the orgin made me feel curious about it, so I've done some research and found this: http://www.snopes.com/language/stories/gringo.asp. Really interesting!
The story about the Mexico-USA war and gringo created as a term to address American people is something they would like to be true in both countries. The fact is that the word is probably a vulgar term for "greek" meaning "a language you can't understand, both written or spoken", later applied to people that spoke such languages. This term is included in the "Diccionario castellano con las voces de ciencias y artes" compiled by Father Esteban de Terrero y Pando and printed in 1790.
If you visit CORDE, the site of Real Academia Española which database contains selected texts in Spanish from 980 to 1970, you'll find that "gringo" is used in "El Matadero" by Esteban Echeverría, an Argentinian writer, in 1838, and also used by Manuel Bretón de los Herreros, a Spanish writer, in "El Pelo de la Dehesa", published in 1840. In the case of all Argentinian writers of that time, "gringo" means those people who speak Spanish with a strong accent, mainly English, Irish, French and Scotts by that time (including my great great great grandfather ). Echeverría wrote "gringos y herejotes", both derogative and tender terms (herejotes -kind of heretics- because some gringos were Protestant), quite a contradiction, meaning "those who are not alike us". Bretón de los Herreros used gringo to refer to an unintelligible foreign language.
Today the use of the term "gringo" varies from one country to another. In Mexico refers mainly to white Americans, in Argentina and Uruguay means mainly white people of European ancestry, Christian, that don't match the Spanish Mediterranean prototype (what includes me, as I can be described as gringo though now and then they call me "negro" or "negrito" -black or blackie). The term identifies the Germanic type in many countries, because they were British who were wandering by the Americas in the days this word became common lexicon.
I'll tell you about my area -Santa Fe, Argentina- Gringos were the Italian inmigrants or their descendants who came from Europe in 1870 to work the land... "Gringo" was a very common nickname for blonde people -italian descendants- some years ago. Now it's not as common as it used to be but we still hear the word when referring to the people who own or work the land, they are called "los gringos del campo" (though they're not blonde all of them).
http://www.pampagringa.com.ar/
Lo que escribió Eduardo Larraza desde Alemania
A José Pedroni
Poeta de mi patria.
Como tu Gota de Agua, clara,
que sólo surjan, claras, las palabras.
Para decirte, poeta de mi patria,
lo que me dicta el alma.
Te descubrí, poeta tierno
de mi tierra llana,
entre la cenicienta bruma
del germano.
Donde la noche del invierno
es larga. Donde el alba nace
sin tu sol soberano.
Pero yo llevo, entre la niebla
de las ciudades bajas,
como un regalo del cielo,
como una bella esmeralda,
tu libro hecho de campos,
tus versos al río y la calandria.
Por oscuras calles silenciosas,
por tristes campos regados
con sangre de mortíferas batallas.
Te llevo conmigo, donde el Rin
rumoroso sobre el Tal se derrama,
por el ancho valle, entre peñascos,
arrastrando los siglos y las aguas
del corazón de Germania.
Te llevo en la mirada clara
de una niña que pasa.
Y en la apacible lluvia
sobre la tierra magra.
En la nieve sobre tumbas
de almas ya pasadas,
donde la paz es honda
como la que a ti acompaña.
"Santa Fe está lejos,
donde tú descansas"
Voy contigo por callejas
desmesuradamente viejas,
portando cual tesoro
tu obra inmensa.
Y no he encontrado
en tus versos, José,
ni una sola queja.
Nadie, nadie como tú
"hermano luminoso de Lugones"
nadie como tú, cantó a mi tierra.
Con la dulce frescura,
con la mirada tierna,
al indio, al gaucho y a la luz,
al gringo, al lino y a la lluvia
¡sobre la Pampa Vieja!
"Santa Fe está lejos,
la del arado y la reja"
La Esperanza tuya, José,
por un instante será mía,
cuando deje caer allí,
donde tú duermes,
la vieja espiga
que amaste con fervor
¡sobre la Pampa Gringa!
El poeta muere un día,
pero su obra, su creación, perdura,
si como tú, fue grande,
viejo soñador. Pura ternura.
Duerme tu sueño, José,
largo y tranquilo.
La Gota de Agua te acompaña.
Y el sol, los pastos y el rocío.
El petirrojo, tu viento hermano.
En todas partes... el trigo.
¡Patria! Preserva tu poeta.
Cúbrelo con tu manto
de tierra y trigo.
No lo dejes rodar
al fondo del olvido.
Descúbrelo a los ojos
del hombre,
en quien creyó y amó,
del joven y del niño.
Y guarda su luz inolvidable
¡para todos los siglos!
I've been called "Gringo" for most of my life. I find it offensive. I don't understand why I'm referred to by my racial characteristics when I have a name, personality, dreams, sorrows, and concerns. I sure as hell don't walk down the street saying, "Good morning, Nicaraguan! How are you doing, Costa Rican?"
I heard it a lot when I was a kid living on the Mexican border. A lot. I hear it once in a while here in Costa Rica, and I heard it a few times in Southern Brazil where I lived. Yes, Brazilians use it too. I have to remind myself that in the US it's considered very bad manners to make constant references to someone's race, nationality, weight, use if eyeglasses, etc. In Latin America these references are quite common: el chinito de la esquina, mi gordito, la flaca, cuatrojos, etc. It's a cultural difference.
One night years ago a Costa Rican asked my why I objected to the term. As usual, I was told that "gringo" was not intended to be offensive. I reponded by saying that I held Costa Ricans in high regard, and I had no idea why they were offended when I called one an "hijo de p***". After all, it was said with respect and affection, and without any intention to offend. He looked at me for a few moments and said, "Now I understand."
Years ago I heard something that has stuck with me. "We don't say what we say. We say what others hear." Regardless of our intentions, if what we say is found offensive by others, maybe we should think about not using the word.
They addressed you "Hey, gringo!" or just spoke about you "el gringo dijo esto o hizo lo otro"?Quote:
Originally Posted by Thomas
I want to thank everyone for the history lesson, i got schooled!Quote:
Originally Posted by vicente
One "reason" I'd heard about the "gringo" word was that it was taught during the driving lessons......green means go....so those who didn't know much english would say "green go" all together ending up with "gringo"....hahahaha!!!
It was a joke! :D
I think it all boils down to this : it depends on the tone of voice and/or purpose we use the term "gringo". I've been living for over five years in the U.S. and, I have met people whose physical outlines would certainly become a reason for many people in my turf( Honduras) to call them "gringos". By physical outlines, I mean blue or black eyes, white skin, usually blond hair..and English as a native language. And some of the people I have met think the way you do: the term is offensive to them. But others( I would say, the vast majority of those I have met up to now) do not find it that way but funny instead. To me, it is not offensive at all as long as your purpose is not evil towards the person you allude to.Quote:
Originally Posted by Thomas
Now, the other Spanish phrase you referred to(hijo de p***).. if either me or ANY person who uses it has not built up the right level of relationship allowing the use of such term with the other guy..other than being very offensive..I could guarantee that for all hell is going to break loose.
Overall, I understand your point. But I wouldn't even dare to make comparisons between the use of that phrase(hijo de p***) and the use of "gringo", nor would I use that Spanish swear when addressing someone unless a very special and/or specific level of interaction has been built up between that person and me.
To my understanding and from what I've noticed in the U.S. so far, the most common translation for that Spanish swear in English(pretty much accurate, which is "SOB") is not used in the same context(strong or not) in both languages. If I am wrong, well,.. please nicely correct me. But the Spanish swear you just referred to is quite strong.
As for the term «gringo» and its origin(as far as I know) I couldn't agree more with Vicente's and Julio Jaubert's anwers.
Best,
seeker50.
I hope you didn't think I was equating hijo de puta with gringo, because that wasn't my intent. What I was attempting to show is that it doesn't really matter what our intent it, it is how our words and actions affect others.
Years ago a colleague married a Thai. Later, in Thailand, he met his wife's family. He didn't speak the language and didn't know the culture. During the meeting, he stretched his legs and in doing so the soles of his feet were pointed toward his new father-in-law. The old man went beserk. In Thai culture, his new son-in-law had showed his great disrepect. Had that been my colleague's intention? Of course not. However, that was the end result.
I hear many Americans in Latin America refer to themselves as gringos. I don't have a problem with that. If they are comfortable with the word, that's wonderful. But as a kid I lived on the Mexican border and gringo was something I was called before someone tried to kick my ass. Maybe during and afterwards too. My major objection is the tendency for some Hispanics to make constant reference to my race. Constant. Gringo this, gringo that. What on earth does my race have to do with anything? Is it so damn hard to learn my name, to go beyond the color of my skin and eyes, to see me as a man and not a someone of a different race?
People have told me that gringo is the same thing as saying catracho, chapín, guanaco, pinolero, tico, pana, etc. Bull. People tell me I live in Tiquicia, I can get my film developed at Ticolor, etc. I've never walked down a street in Gringolandia and asked for reprints at Gringocolor. I don't like the word. Gringo to me is much like chino. If the guy is from China, Japan, Korea, the Philippines, Singapore or whatever, he's chino. Yes, I've had people insist that all Japanese speak Chinese. Aren't they all chinos? Jeezzz... Give me a break. Let's look beyond skin pigmentation. Let's broaden our cultural horizons and treat others as we want to be treated.
Thomas,
I totally get what you are saying.
And your "chino" example hit the nail on the head.
You feel it is like a "racist" remark? Sort of like when American citizens who don't like illegal immigrants, call them all Mexicans? Or like when they say to "go back to Mexico" when a person may actually be from another country.
I totally get it.
But now you are going into politically correct terms. And that's also a touchy subject...hahaha....if you know what I mean.
Whites are no longer whites...they're Irish/Italian/German/American Indian/etc.
African Americans are no longer African Americans....they have much more mixed in....
So do many other races.
But I understand "where you're coming from".
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Originally Posted by seeker50
I am in complete agreement with Seeker. The vast majority of people in The U.S. do not find it offensive. I actually refer to myself as a "gringo". It is a handy way to tell people who you are. It is much easier than "Americano", "Norte Americano", "de los Estados Unidos", etc. I know when it is being used as a pejorative simply by the tone of the person's voice. It is not the word itself.
I understand why Thomas doesn't like to be called gringo but it is totally unrealistic to expect that we are going to stop using that word or stop referring to each other by race or origin. It is basic human nature to put identifiers on people. You can call it what you want but we ALL do it. We identify people in physical ways so that others will know immediately who we are talking about. "the old guy. the black guy, the fat lady, the blond girl, the rich man, the tall guy, the bald guy, the Korean man, the Mexican, the latino, the gringo, and on and on....
My experience is that nobody who did not know me ever called me gringo to my face unless I had already used to word to describe myself. In Costa Rica, in particular, the people there are extremely polite and generally call me "caballero" unless they know me.
Dragona, as a young man, all my friends were Nicaraguan. Some members of my own family asked what part of Mexico that was. LOL.
Switching over to the word "yanqui", I remember some Argentines concered that the word was offensive to me. (Thank them for having the "educación" to show that courtesy!) A Yankee comes from a relatively clearly defined part of the USA. Calling all American Yankees is like calling all Italians Romans, all Argentines Salteños, all Peruvians Cuzqueños, etc. It's offensive to me; it's just wrong.
Dragona, feel free to call me what you like. Just don't call me late for dinner!
What do they call you when they know you? LOLQuote:
Originally Posted by vicente
I just got back from a weekend training course in Vara Blanca. As the only non-Costa Rican in the group, I heard the word. My in-laws used it to until I asked them to stop. I hear it here, but nothing like in Mexico.
The vast majority of people in the U.S. has not had my life experiences.
Well, sir, it's unfortunate that you so many problems with the Mexicans on the border or wherever else you have had bad experiences but if they had not called you gringo they would have called you something else, equally offensive.
Here's part of the problem. You equate gringo with citizen of the USA, right? That's not it. It's someone white. It definitely refers to your race. If you are called that excessively, I'll bet you a dollar to your doughnut you're going to get tired of it.
A white US citizen. Correct. And that is what I am. But I don't need to tell them that I am white, They can see that. I don't care that it refers to my race. I am what I am. It's no big deal. Hell, many of us celebrate our race all the time. The Irish, Germans, African Americans, Italians, Mexicans, etc., all have their "Days" and parades
Hang on. I'm not expecting it to stop. It will continue. But when people talk to me, I prefer that another word or, even better, my name be used. My name. Is that such a big sacrifice? I use their name. Is that such a big sacrifice?
Do you think "the old guy" or "the black guy" may get tired of it too?
I guess I might get tired of it if nobody ever called me by my name and always referred to me as "gringo" but that's the point. It doesn't happen. The way you state your case makes it seem more like a problem of respect. Nobody constantly calls someone gringo, old guy or black guy to their face unless they are trying to offend them or get under their skin.
It is puzzling to me that you encounter the word so often (or so it would seem) because even though I tell people I am a gringo they do not call me that. I do not hear others use the word all that much...and when they do they are referring to another white Norte Americano and always in a matter-of-fact or respectful way.
To me this discussion is similar to the one we recently had about other offensive words. Words are just words. They are offensive only if you perceive them as offensive. I am not offended by the word itself. I consider the person's intent.
Seeker said it. If we are friends you can call me an old s.o.b. or a bastard and I will know you don't intend to offend me. If I don't know you, you can call me "amigo" with a sneer or the wrong tone of voice and I will know you are trying to insult me.
What do they call you when they know you? LOL
They call me Vicente.
Saludos:)
I think it is important to recognize that the word can have a lot of different meanings and it is interpreted differently by every person. I understand what you mean about "identifiers" Vicente, we all do it, either verbally or simply internally, though I think that it bears a different meaning for everyone and it is just as easy to ask a person's name, so is it really necessary?
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Originally Posted by sarab
Hi sarab:)
Of course I agree with you and Thomas that a person has the right to expect to be addressed by his or her name and not be called a word that they dislike, especially after they have let it be known that they don't like the word. That's just simple courtesy.
In Guatemala, a Gringo is anyone who is white from North America or Europe. It's not ment to be offensive only a name that is given to white people. Some people who are white in Guate are called gringo looking!
One thing thats always bothered me. The name American, I'm American and no I wasn't born in the US. But I was born in the American continent. What do you call a person born in Europe...a European. So why do people from the states think they are the only ones who are Americans?
If anything the correct name would be united statetian or something similar. In Guatemala we don't say Americano...we say estaunidence!....just thought of and wanted to add to my comment....later...:)
Hola chapinrico:
You have raised a question that I have asked others for years!:) , i.e., So why do people from the states think they are the only ones who are Americans?
Personally I do not like the term Americano for that very reason but I do not think that we in the U.S. applied that name to ourselves. I think it is what others called us from the beginning and we adopted the name and now it is too widespread to change it. Perhaps it evolved from the fact that officially we are named The United States of America, but you are absolutely right, every citizen of North, Central and South America is tecnically an American. The trouble is that nobody is going to understand when an Ecuadorian identifies himself as American. It would simply lead to confusion and eventually he would have to say he was from Ecuador anyway.
In my early years on the Mexican border I met many people who called themselves Mexican even though they were born in the U.S. I would say "then you're an American, no?" and they would say "yes, but I'm Mexican". The term American did not appeal to them either. Mexican-American maybe, but not just American.
What else can we call ourselves that would not be too cumbersome?:confused: As for "United Statians", I like estaunidence! But what then if Mexico objects? They have the right to that name as well since Mexico is actually the United States of Mexico.
Some call us norte americanos but that isn't entirely accurate either because Canada and Mexico and even parts of Central America are in North America (depending on which map you prefer).
I used to say I was a gringo and assumed everybody would know that I was from the USA. Now after learning that it means different things in different countries I will have to change. In a formal introduction I have always said I'm from the United States or soy de los estados unidos. I guess I'll have to stay with that.:)
Saludos!
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Originally Posted by chapinrico
Interesting thread!!! In Argentina we say "Estadounidense". And the term "gringo" is not offensive at all... neither is "yankee". It depends on what you say and the tone of your voice, but it's quite usual to hear expressions like "Mi prima está saliendo con un yankee que conoció de vacaciones en Mexico", and that's not offenssive...
Personally I also agree with the other member(s) about the tone of voice and attitude it's said in.
I've always heard the word gringo when someone is referring to a white peraon, usually that white person is North American (here we go with political correctness, goodness!!). I've also never heard it in a wrong tone or nasty attitude when talking about a "cool" gringo/a. But I have heard it in a harsh tone and nasty attitude when talking about a person who is not to the person's liking for whatever reason.
It's all in the tone of voice and attitude.
I've had my brother jokingly role his eyes and taunt me calling me a "white girl", now I know he's joking so I just shoot back "look who'a talking white boy!".
It's all friendly and funny.
I did have a friend who called me that, who also rolled her eyes but with her I knew she wasn't saying it to be funny. She wanted to be mean, knowing full well that I would defend myself. But then again she is from West Indian/Caribbean descendants so her skin is really dark and she had/has issues with whites and the police.
Alrighty, those are my two cents, I know, not worth much :p
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Dragona
Personally I also agree with the other member(s) about the tone of voice and attitude it's said in.
I've always heard the word gringo when someone is referring to a white peraon, usually that white person is North American (here we go with political correctness, goodness!!). I've also never heard it in a wrong tone or nasty attitude when talking about a "cool" gringo/a. But I have heard it in a harsh tone and nasty attitude when talking about a person who is not to the person's liking for whatever reason.
It's all in the tone of voice and attitude.
I've had my brother jokingly role his eyes and taunt me calling me a "white girl", now I know he's joking so I just shoot back "look who'a talking white boy!".
It's all friendly and funny.
I did have a friend who called me that, who also rolled her eyes but with her I knew she wasn't saying it to be funny. She wanted to be mean, knowing full well that I would defend myself. But then again she is from West Indian/Caribbean descendants so her skin is really dark and she had/has issues with whites and the police.
Alrighty, those are my two cents, I know, not worth much :p
What could you possibly mean by this? I am so confused. :confused: Are you saying she wanted to be mean because she is dark-skinned and therefore inferior to you and the police (also an authority figure in her eyes). This is what Thomas is talking about. Whenever we correlate someones character to their race or appeareance, we only demonstrate our own prejudices and complexes. It is never o.k. to reduce people to the traits or characteristics that WE deem important. My dear, THAT WOULD leave the whole world blind or at least hurt a lot of feelings.
I agree with Morna, very strange post, Dragona.
What has her being black got anything to do with calling you gringo?
And why the reference to the police? Hasn't got anything do with it, has it? Or only people , black and with issues with the police, call others gringo ?
Strange attitude.
In Spain, getting back to the point. We call people from the States: americanos. Yes, I know, not the most correct term, but that's the one we use.
We have different names for foreigners:
guiri, chan, yanky (yankee)
I, for one, want to say that I do think I understand what Dragona is saying in her post regarding race relations in the US. It might be difficult for someone who has not spent a significant amount of time in the country to appreciate it from the way Dragona laid it out, but any person with a darker skin tone will notoriously be treated in a different manner by the police and about any authority figure, i.e. the cops have the reputation of treating any non-white person as a criminal, regardless of the situation--the Rodney King and OJ Simpson incidents carried so much weight in the country precisely for this reason. This has logically produced a strong amount of distrust from many people with darker complexion, depending on their personal experiences or those of their friends and family. In the context of her post (regarding the treatment of white people by Spanish speakers), the reference to the police makes sense...though it could have been explained a little more.
Wow! I never thought I'd get flamed!!!! :eek: Geez, relax people, please.Quote:
Originally Posted by La Morena
I'm just defending myself. It's my friend who has issues, I'm just reiterating her issues.
I have nothing againt anyone. We are all different, if we were are the same we would be very boring.
She was my BEST FRIEND, I loved her to death and I never saw her as inferior to me or anyone, but she always had issues when it came to skin color. Maybe it was the area she lived in, where she grew up, or a combination of both.
Regardless, I meant nothing it. I was just using her as an example of the tone of voice people use to say things, and the thread is about the word gringo (which by all means is white person- or so i thought...read below). Hense her calling me white girl when she was annoyed at me for the silliest thing and the tone of voice she used. She never called me a "white girl" in a silly sense, or jokingly.
The entire message was only meant to be used as an example for the tone of voice she used. Not to flame her or make me sound mean. Not at all.
Like Scott said, maybe I could have explained it more, I was not being politically correct or something. Someone (in this case me) is always going to say/write something that is going to offend someone else, even if the writer meant no offense (like me in this case).
If I offended someone, I am sorry. Forgive me for using a wrong example, hopefull next time I'll try to use another example that will not cause another equally intensive flame job (I do love my head, helps me to stay alive, please don't bite it off) :D.
PS By the way, my friend says that her "black husband gets called gringo all the time" (all her words, hence the quotation mark- I am on the phone with her as I write this). And I'm not trying to start anything, just letting folks know that gringo isn't used just for white folks as we all thought. ;) I just got schooled myself by my friend. Apparently gringo is not used only for white people, her family calls everyone born in the US a gringo. She gets called a gringa all the time just because she was born here. And she asked me to write that she "doesn't take it offensively".
For what it is worth to you Dragona...I knew exactly what you were trying to say and I was surprised that somebody would take offense.
Saludos
Thank You Vicente. Thank You Scott.:)Quote:
Originally Posted by vicente
I appeciate your support. :D
And Vicente, it is worth a lot to me. To have someone (other than the friend who I was on the phone with when I was typing the previous message) in the forum to know what I was talking about.
Thanks again!:D
I am a white American Citizen who is 50% cuban and 50% german. That being said, because all of the cubans in my family can trace ancestory to Spain, GRINGO has always meant
SOMEONE WHO ACTS WHITE.
Main word being ACTS!!!!!!
Anyone can act white. (ie faking a gringo accent when speaking spanish though you speak fluently and spanish was your firstlanguage.)
Anyone can act gringo.... and therefore be gringo
it is something that can be overcome.
Another example is that I hate rice. I am a cuban who loathes rice and never eats rice. But I am not gringo because it isn't that I only eat tasteless white rice, it is that I don't eat rice at all.
Wow! Where's the popcorn? Hehehe The conversation got kind of heated but it was pretty interesting to see everybody's point of view...
In Puerto Rico, a gringo is a person from the USA that speaks english. It is not a derogatory term, it is just a word. It is not a bad word or anything, but some people feel offended by it (including my husband). I believe that the only way that word could be seen as offensive is if somebody says it in a harsh or mean tone. Then again, that's just my opinion.:)
the thing with names being offensive is the intention, of course. to give you an example that you might find strange, in my country we use the name "Negro" to address people of dark (or just darker than white) skin, and sometimes not even connected to the person's color but just developed as a nickname for them. they're never offended, of course UNLESS you say it in a harsh tone (and generally followed by more words that indicate dislike or contempt). I know well because I was once married to a dark-skinned person. I'm sure you wouldn't be able to do the same in the States... (I really don't know about other countries...)
Did you know that in Brazil anyone who is not Brazilian is a gringo?
I doesn't matter if you are Chinese, South American, Mexican, Indian, Canadian, etc.
I would have never guessed that the word "gringo" was at all used in Brazil! It's a Spanish word, isn't it?
But I'll repeat it AGAIN: great thing about the forum is how much we learn!
Keep 'em coming! ;-)
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Originally Posted by Thomas
Hi Laura!!...as you can see, our friend Thomas told us back in 2008 that it was used in Brazil.:)
And you are so right, this entire thread has certainly taught me a lot about a word that I used to think I understood completely!
At times, I refer to myself as "The Old Gringo" but now I realize I have to be aware of what country people are from.
oops. thanks for pointing out my absolute lack of memory, Old Gringo!
the other TRUTH you mention is worth a new thread! how we always have to consider that certain words are not used in the same way (or with equal intention) in different countries or by different people...
;-)
Hi Vicente!
Here in Argentina formerly was used to call the Americans, but we have replaced it in the daily use for "yanquis".
Usually we use "gringo" to talk about someone foreign, mainly an immigrant that came to establish in the country.
And Tradutore is right, in Brazil also they use "gringo" to call anyone not born at Brazil.
To reply to Lauracipolla, I think the use of "gringo" in Brazil it's mainly in the South and up to São Paulo due to influence of the Spanish spoken in Argentina, Uruguay or Paraguay that share borders with Brazil.
~~~
Talking about the "american"... When I worked in a call-center I used to get phone calls from States customers. They could tell right away due to my accent that I wasn't "American" so they asked me where I was from. I used to reply that I was American located in L.A. Usually they thought I was Mexican working in Los Angeles, but I loved to correct them quickly: «No ma'am, I'm Argentinian located in Latin America.» :)
It really upsets me the use of American as if only people from the States where located in América.
~~~
And about the origin of "gringo" I found the Wikipedia link that talks about the several theories:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gringo
It also talks about the use of "gringo" in Brazil, some may find it interested too.
By the way, great thread! ;)
Hi Laurinha!!
in response to "It really upsets me the use of American as if only people from the States where located in América."
Here is what I wrote to another poster who felt the same as you.
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Hola chapinrico:
You have raised a question that I have asked others for years!:) , i.e., So why do people from the states think they are the only ones who are Americans?
Personally I do not like the term Americano for that very reason but I do not think that we in the U.S. applied that name to ourselves. I think it is what others called us from the beginning and we adopted the name and now it is too widespread to change it. Perhaps it evolved from the fact that officially we are named The United States of America, but you are absolutely right, every citizen of North, Central and South America is tecnically an American. The trouble is that nobody is going to understand when an Ecuadorian identifies himself as American. It would simply lead to confusion and eventually he would have to say he was from Ecuador anyway.
In my early years on the Mexican border I met many people who called themselves Mexican even though they were born in the U.S. I would say "then you're an American, no?" and they would say "yes, but I'm Mexican". The term American did not appeal to them either. Mexican-American maybe, but not just American.
What else can we call ourselves that would not be too cumbersome?:confused: As for "United Statians", I like estadounidense! But what then if Mexico objects? They have the right to that name as well since Mexico is actually the United States of Mexico.
Some call us norte americanos but that isn't entirely accurate either because Canada and Mexico and even parts of Central America are in North America (depending on which map you prefer).
I used to say I was a gringo and assumed everybody would know that I was from the USA. Now after learning that it means different things in different countries I will have to change. In a formal introduction I have always said I'm from the United States or soy de los estados unidos. I guess I'll have to stay with that.:)
Saludos!
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Originally Posted by chapinrico
In Guatemala, a Gringo is anyone who is white from North America or Europe. It's not ment to be offensive only a name that is given to white people. Some people who are white in Guate are called gringo looking!
One thing thats always bothered me. The name American, I'm American and no I wasn't born in the US. But I was born in the American continent. What do you call a person born in Europe...a European. So why do people from the states think they are the only ones who are Americans?
If anything the correct name would be united statetian or something similar. In Guatemala we don't say Americano...we say estaunidence!....just thought of and wanted to add to my comment....later...:)
Hi Vicente!
It's funny. In Spanish we have the word "Estadounidenses" that usually we use to call people from the States, and we use "Mexicanos" to call people from Mexico. (It could be with "x" or with "j": Mejicanos/Mejico. I like more to use the "x".)
But being English the natural language of the United States there isn't a word in English to call US citizens, other than "Americans".
I think I don't like this use of "Americans" as I also don't like the use of "Latino" or "Hispanic" to call everyone coming from Latin America.
We have a huge diversity of culture, language, customs, lifestyles and even origins that to generalize all that bothers me. I feel it's like denied all this diversity that we have in Latin America.
I think it could be like mistake a Chinese with a Corean just because they have slant eyes...
Hi Laurinha!
As I have said, I agree in principle with those who object to the term American being applied solely to people from the US but it is a term that is unlikely to change. We are known as Americans throughout the entire world. Even the Canadians call us Americans, although they and the Brits usually refer to us as Yanks (yankees-yanquis). They have called us Americans and Yanks since colonial times back in the 1600s (so blame the Brits for it, not us!!:) ).
As for latino and Hispanic, I also understand your point about the diversity of cultures but those are also appellations that would be difficult to change, at least insofar as they are applied in a broad sense. In the US the term Hispanic is official. It is used to describe a race, as is, White, Asian, Negro, etc. As you know, in race designations for demographics, census, etc., the specific country of origin is inconsequential on the whole because there can be different ethnic groups, or races, within a country.
Latino on the other hand is more of an informal designation for Hispanics and is useful in discribing things latin in a general sense, e.g., music, appearance, accents, neighborhoods, dance, etc. Of course, in some instances you can be more specific. (Cuban music, Mexican food, Brazilian dance, Argentine beef, etc.) but in other instances you can't be that specific. For example, how do you describe a mixed community such as Miami, Florida that has a population from all over Central and South America? Latino or Hispanic are the only words that come to my mind. True, maybe you can break down certain barrios and perhaps say that they are Cuban, or Dominican, or Venezuelan but as a whole community these are people from various Spanish-speaking countries and therefore it is an Hispanic or latino community.
Yes? No? :)
P.S. What would you call a community in Argentina (or elsewhere) that is a mixture of Europeans and North Americans? (a bunch of gringos?:D )