Quarks, Translation, DTP...!

Hi Everyone!
I´ve been re visiting many threads devoted to "Quark"...Oh my...

There´s whole threads varying from the "exchange" format", to the "export-import" process, to DTP issues!
I think there´s no other Design Program taking so many posts like Quark has done so far...

So, my question is which is the best or one of the best translation tools to work Quark without "killing" all of the formatting once translation has taken place...

I have this feeling that this question might bring up many many other questions!! So, let´s share!! :rolleyes:

Hi analaura! As you say, there's room for many different topics on Quark. Although I don't see too much of it lately (same as for FrameMaker), it's still an application somewhat alluring to graphic designers, but a pain in the neck for translators! :)

Although I claim to be a "heavy" MemSource user lately, I still prefer SDL Studio to deal with Quark. I dare say that MemSource's competitive edge on simplifying tag management turns into a downside for applications with complex formatting and tagging such as FrameMaker or Quark. I know some people have tried a combination of Trados/SDL and MemSource, but I'm not sure how compatible they are. Is there anything special you would like to know?

Hi Gentle
How you doing?

It´s funny we always come across in these "easy" posts... ;)
Well, yeah, I would like to know if someone has been doing anything different from what I do, because even though I try hard, Im still not very happy with the outputs I get when it comes to Quark files.

I¨ll try to explain basically what I do and then we can compare this with what others do and hopefully we can get a good recipe for Quarks!

I open the Quark file, and then I go to the Copy Flow tab, then I click in Auto name boxes (It´s HIGHLY IMPORTANT that here you add an easy name, a name that you WILL remember later at the Import stage, for instance "file1"
Then you cick "ok" and you "Save" the file.
Once it´s been "Saved", you go to "Export". The annoying part here is that you have to manually look for the path. :(
And you will get the "Tag" file, which you´ll use for translation.

http://www.english-spanish-translato...export-tag.jpg

So nice of you to take time to post all steps with screenshots! :) Let's go step by step and, in the future, I will know that I have like guidelines in this friendly forum.

So far, I do the same thing that you do. I suppose you "flush" the Quark file next, don't you?

Yes, I think screenshots are the best guidelines, you feel more confident about what you are doing...
So, once you "Export" the content, you´ll get a "tag" file.
This "tag" file is what you´ll use for translation in your prefered CAT TOOL.

The reason why I opened this new thread was that I wanted to know which Cat Tools you guys use for "Tags", because I´d like to hear other ways of doing this :)

Once I get the "tag", I open it in Tag Editor, because later on, I´ll use that "tag.ttx" to upload to Memsource.

Now, you have the "tag.ttx" but, you CAN´T upload it to Memsource as is.
You need to pre-segment the file to make sure:
- file language pair matches your Memsource settings
- you won´t have issues when importing translated tag file into Quark

IMPORTANT NOTE about pre-segmenting: You need to have the box "Segment unknown sentences" checked.

See highlights in this screenshot:
http://www.english-spanish-translato...-translate.jpg

I know some friends of mine do it straight in Trados/SDL, whether it be with the TTX for the old TagEditor or an SDLXliff from Studio.

I personally upgraded Studio to 2015 and tried one project coming from Quark and it went really well. You know that too many tags are somewhat annoying, but nowadays Studio is much more user friendly to manage tags.

From my perspective, having a clear view of what those tags are all about (what kind of formatting they "command") also helps you place them correctly within the target content. I hope to find some time to capture some screen shots myself so that you understand what I'm talking about.

Bonus Track :)
To make sure file has been correctly pre-segmented, when you open the ttx file, you´ll see all these "TU" tags, that means you are doing ok, so far :)

http://www.english-spanish-translato...gmentation.jpg

Ok, NOW, you are ok to move on to the translation stage. So, soon, I´ll prepare the next steps so that we can do this in detail and see if we are doing something wrong in the process :)
We need to get this right! alltogether :cool:

Ok...do you know what? I switched to using Studio because I had trouble with the old TagEditor, not only because of wrong segmenting the file, but also because many tags disappeared and formatting in the output file was completely disrupted. I realize that pre-segmentation was missing in my own workflow.

In any case, I'm pasting a screen shot of the editor view in Studio for you to have a comparative point of view. I guess they look somewhat similar. The upside of using Studio is that it seems that there's no need for any pre-segmentation as the application does that automatically when preparing the files for processing.

Attachment 287

Hi Gentle
Here I am again, to resume this challenging comparison :)

Well, first off, to round off my "tag export /import process"...
We had gone so far to prepare the pre segmentation tag.ttx so that it´s ready for translation in Memsource.

So, you´ll upload it to Memsource, and you´ll easily know if it´s correct or not, because it´s there´s something wrong, you´ll get this "error" message about either having the wrong language pairs, or having the wrong segmentation, etc...

And from there, you can proceed with the translation, editing, etc....

So, once translation in tag.ttx is ready, you´ll have to "clean" the ttx file.
Remember you can do it either by cleaning the ttx file with the TM or by just doing "Save Target as...", depending on whether you already have those segments in the TM or not...
And also make sure you always have the original tag file placed in same directory where the tag.ttx file is.
You´ll overwright that tag. (I think there´s no real need to have that tag in there, that ttx can produce that tag by cleaning the file, but Im not positive about this)

So... at the end, you´ll have a translated tag!!! Ready to be imported back into Quark

And... Tag Import!
Phew... I´m tired already :)
But, we are getting closer!!

Once with the translated tag, we need to import it into the original Quark file.
So, you want to open the original Quark file, same one you opened to export that tag.

And then, you´ll click again in "Copy flow" and you´ll "Flush" the file, yes, you´ll flush all its content and you´ll see how the text is being flushed!!
Once all the text boxes are clean, you´ll click on Import, and this time, you can go and paste the path where you have the translated tag. You pick it and...

Magic!! Same way you´ve seen how text was being washed, now you´ll see how translated text starts filling in all of the boxes. And that´s sooo nice to see! :)

See screenshot below
- Flush is step I
- Import is step II

http://www.english-spanish-translato...ush-import.jpg

Now, back to our comparison Memsource vs Studio, Gentle...
Yes, I´ve noticed we can avoid the pre- segmentation step with Trados Studio, which is really a good thing...
As for the tags, I think tags in Studio are more clear, at least to me...
I´ll do a couple of tests, to see how the final output in Quark looks like, and then, we can compare which one looks best, right?

Hi Ana! Just wanted to tell you that I "invested" time trying out the SDLXliff file coming from Studio 2015 and translating it within MemSource's platform.

Although this workflow adds a few more steps (than processing straight in Studio), it allows you to use team members that do not have Studio yet. Segmentation is well respected (as it comes from the preparation of the TAG file in Studio) and, to my surprise, was almost the same as the one for the SDLXliff in MemSource (I exported a TMX from Studio and imported it in MemSource so that I could easily pretranslate, populate, confirm and block segments.

Hi there!

I´m following you... but Im thinking that whole process, I mean doing this with Studio 2015 and then Memsource, it´s about the same long process or may be even longer, than doing the tag.ttx pre segmentation and work it directly in Memsource...Because if I remember right, your issues with Memsource came up due to the fact of not having done the pre segmentation process complete. Did I understand correctly?
So, both ways end up being about same long... I think.
And in terms of tags... If we follow the right segmentation steps we might end up having a similar output... What do you think?

Anyone else having a different, easier way?? :confused:

Hi everyone...
I´ve heard of "ex TranslationFilter" for QuarkXPress 2015... Has anyone else heard of this?
There´s hope at the end of the tunnel? :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by analaura

... but Im thinking that whole process, I mean doing this with Studio 2015 and then Memsource, it´s about the same long process or may be even longer, than doing the tag.ttx pre segmentation and work it directly in Memsource...Because if I remember right, your issues with Memsource came up due to the fact of not having done the pre segmentation process complete. Did I understand correctly?

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That's exactly the point! It's basically pretty similar, but you don't need to remember to be checking boxes as pre-segmentation is done correctly when preparing the SDLXLIFF file.

By the way, I know a friend of mine have tried that TranslationFilter app, although I don't know if it works for older versions of Quark but for 2015. I'll talk to him and let you know.

Hi Gentle
Yes, Im interested in this "new hope" about the TranslationFilter app. From what I´ve heard -because I haven´t had a chance of trying it myself- you can save your old Quark versions to 2015 and you should be able to use the app... But I might be talking nonsense... If you can check, that would be awesome!

Ana Laura and Gentle, I have to say your tutorial is amazing! I followed your steps and everything worked out almost perfectly. The issue i had was with the Quark version I used for generating the "tag"file.
Make the sure the Quark version you use when you go from qxp to this "tag" file has to be the same when you go back from the translated "tag" file to qxp.

Hi Nabyl
I´m glad this helped! and thank you for improving it with your extra tip!! ;)

Hi gente!
I guess you're kidding when saying that Quark is somehow alluring to Graphic Designers :p
In my opinion, Quark "#@$!!. I find Indesign much more intuitive and powerful. Adobe dubbed it as the Quark Killer. And they are not wrong, fortunatelly.

Back to this thread, but just to beware that MemSource now supports TAG files as well. That is, you won't avoid the cumbersome conversion process, but you can go straight into MemSource. Everyone who wants to read about it can click on the following link Support for QuarkXPress files – TAG and XTG | The Official Memsource Blog.