"should have"???

Hi, I am very confused about something... I have studied spanish for a while now and I dont understand how to say "should have" as in "I should have brought the keys" The native speakers say "yo hubiera traido las llaves" but it doesnt make sense to me, because "hubiera" means "I would have" along with "habria" whats the difference between "hubiera" and "habria" and how do you know how to seperate the two? For example "I wouldn't have been late but there was traffic" how would you tranlate that..

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Originally Posted by nickdisipio

Hi, I am very confused about something... I have studied spanish for a while now and I dont understand how to say "should have" as in "I should have brought the keys" The native speakers say "yo hubiera traido las llaves"

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Hi Nick:

The correct translation for this sentence would be:

Debería haber traído las llaves.

Debería: should

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For example "I wouldn't have been late but there was traffic" how would you translate that..

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No hubiera llegado tarde pero había mucho tráfico.

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Originally Posted by nickdisipio

Hi, I am very confused about something... I have studied spanish for a while now and I dont understand how to say "should have" as in "I should have brought the keys" The native speakers say "yo hubiera traido las llaves" but it doesnt make sense to me, because "hubiera" means "I would have" along with "habria" whats the difference between "hubiera" and "habria" and how do you know how to seperate the two? For example "I wouldn't have been late but there was traffic" how would you tranlate that..

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hi, nickdisipio

the two verb forms you ask about are REALLY a problem for many Spanish speakers... so don't feel bad. the difference may be explained with a conditional sentence of the "impossible" type (something that cannot be changed because it already took place), and the different position each form takes:

e.g.:
If I had known you were not home, I would have brought the keys" (to use your words)
= Si hubiera sabido que no estabas en casa (the condition), habría traído las llaves (the action taken in consequence)

But I repeat, it's a common mistake for many Spanish speakers to use "hubiera" (subjuntivo) both in the condition-clause and in the consequence-clause...

hope I helped!
laura (a fan of Grammar!!!):)

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Originally Posted by lauracipolla

But I repeat, it's a common mistake for many Spanish speakers to use "hubiera" (subjuntivo) both in the condition-clause and in the consequence-clause...

:)

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I think the common mistake in spanish is to use the conditional in both sentences, ex. Si podría lo haría, where it should be "Si pudiera o pudiese lo haría". Unfortunatly, it's very common and accepted.

Thanks for asking that question Nick!

Ah, bueno, dos, disculpe, tres de mis profesoras aquí en el mismo hilo! Estupendo!
Gracias damas, por las lecciones. También tengo problemas con hubiera y habría.

I agree, Mem. Those you mention are very typical! They're the "probable"-type conditional sentences (subjunctive in the condition [= past form in English] + conditional in the consequence-clause).

I should have mentioned before that the "impossible" conditional sentences take perfect forms for subjunctive + conditional (hubiera ido/venido, etc. + habría ido/venido, etc)

In any case, I agree it's a disgrace so many people make that mistake but worse that it's SOOOOOOOO accepted. :-(

I also wanted to mention to "our student" vicente (:D ) and nick, that in spain , in the north, it is actually a habit to use habría for everything:

Me imagino que yo lo habría sabido igual.

Creo que yo no habría ido.

Mirad esta anécdota simpática:

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¿Es correcto habría? En la zona Norte de España se utiliza comúnmente esta forma en lugar de las otras dos. Yo también lo hago, a veces, porque nací en esa zona. Incorrecta, pero existe y se usa. Es un regionalismo.
Un día de los muchos, mi madre que es riojana de Haro dijo : "Si yo sería catalana... " Mi mujer y yo nos echamos a reir cariñosamente y ella muy seria dijo: " ¿De qué os reís? ¿Creéis que no lo sé? Fuera, fuese o sería.:eek: "
Así que ya ves que, a pesar de ser diferentes tiempos verbales, los hablantes de esa zona los consideran igual.

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thanks so much, your answers are very helpfull, I have been using "hubiera" to say "should have" for a while just from asking native speakers. For example, I asked my mexican friend how to say "i should have brought the key's" and he told me, "yo hubiera traido las llaves". Is it possible he just thought I asked him "I WOULD have brought the keys" ?? I have been using "hubiera" for a year now for "should have" like when I play domino's with girlfriends family which are Puerto Rican's, I would say "tu no hubieras puesto" to my domino partner for "you shouldnt have put that" what was I actually saying to him?:o

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Originally Posted by nickdisipio

"i should have brought the key's" and he told me, "yo hubiera traido las llaves". Is it possible he just thought I asked him "I WOULD have brought the keys" ??

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I don't know if your friend's English is very proficient But he should have said:

Debería haber traído mis llaves.

Hubiera tríado las llaves: I would have brought the keys.

Probably he meant:

si solo hubiera traído las llaves!!!

If only I had brought the keys...!!

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I have been using "hubiera" for a year now for "should have" like when I play domino's with girlfriends family which are Puerto Rican's, I would say "tu no hubieras puesto" to my domino partner for "you shouldnt have put that" what was I actually saying to him?:o

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The thing with friends: they think if they correct you all the time you will be annoyed or sad. So they don't !!:eek:

You actually used would , not should:

hubieras puesto: would have put

Tú no hubieras puesto esto: you wouldn't have put this!:eek:

I am sure your partner understood all right, but really, the sentence was quite wrong.

You must use

should = debería

You should put that: Deberías poner esto

You should have put that: deberías haber puesto esto

If you are referring to a action in the past, you must use the compound form. (like in your example)

Thanks for clearing that up!!!

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Originally Posted by exxcéntrica

hubieras puesto: would have put

Tú no hubieras puesto esto: you wouldn't have put this!:eek:

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sorry to correct you, Exx, but "hubieras puesto" is "had put" (Si hubieras puesto... = If you had put...), es la condición, en subjuntivo (=past in Eng)!

your next example should have been (debería haber sido): "Tú no habrías puesto esto = you wouldn't have put this!" (es consecuencia, acción tomada; se le puede agregar una condición, que sí iría en subjuntivo: "Tú no habrías puesto esto si lo hubieras pensado bien...")

...aunq volvemos a lo anterior: SE DICE ASÍ muy frecuentemente. pero no es lo correcto. :o

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Originally Posted by lauracipolla

sorry to correct you, Exx, but "hubieras puesto" is "had put" (Si hubieras puesto... = If you had put...), es la condición, en subjuntivo (=past in Eng)!

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Sí .......pero no.

En condicionales sí:

If I had come on time, I would have got the tickets.

Si hubiera llegado a tiempo habría (muchas veces se dice hubiera, pero estoy de acuerdo, gramaticalmente incorrecto) conseguido las entradas.

Pero:

¡¡Yo no hubiera hecho esto!!! I wouldn't have done that!!!!

(este es en mi opinión el ejemplo de Nick, en su caso "no deberías haber hecho")

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your next example should have been (debería haber sido): "Tú no habrías puesto esto = you wouldn't have put this!" (es consecuencia, acción tomada; se le puede agregar una condición, que sí iría en subjuntivo: "Tú no habrías puesto esto si lo hubieras pensado bien...")

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Sí, debería ser "habría"...en mi opinión (desde el punto de vista español) ...pero...

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...aunq volvemos a lo anterior: SE DICE ASÍ muy frecuentemente. pero no es lo correcto. :o

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...mira al respecto la opinión de un forero de Argentina:

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De hecho, me gustaría poder transmitirles a muchos foreros españoles la sensación de tiza que chirría contra la pizarra que nos produce a tantos cuando leemos frases como "creo que habría sido más correcto... es la forma correcta". Diría que hay dos paradigmas completamente diferentes en juego y que uno se ha dado por canónico en España, y el otro se lo "tolera" simplemente porque es la forma canónica de otras regiones pero las academias respectivas no son afectas a tomar partido, ni quieren asumir la carga de la divergencia de la lengua. Simplemente, todo los hablantes educados, incluyendo a aquellos avanzados en el estudio del castellano como segunda lengua, debe conocer ambas formas y detectarlas, y buscar su propio sistema mental para enmendarlas a su paradigma incorporado. A mí no me cuesta en absoluto entender y usar "creo que habría sido más correcto" aunque sé que es "lengua extranjera". No veo por qué los demás no puedan -y deban- hacerlo. A quien no pueda hacerlo yo le diría "si natura non te lo dio, no pidas que Salamanca lo arregle por ti" (no te escudes en los cánones).

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¿Qué os parece?:)

(Para estudiosos y amantes de gramática:

http://culturitalia.uibk.ac.at/hispa...ternancias.htm)

Your signature, that excerpt from the Quran...Like wtf is that serious?? That's just messed up like what even

You mean "messed up", like your English? Please!

exxcéntrica's signature is not to be taken seriously. Apparently you didn't notice the "eek" emoticon. :eek: