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Spanish for Spain Iberian Spanish, Peninsular Spanish, European Spanish, Spanish of Spain or Spanish for Spain. Discussions about the Spanish Language used in Spain.

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Old 07-02-2008, 02:00 PM   #1
cosme
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Default "deben de" vs. "deben"

I need help for a memo I am writing to our Spanish-speaking clients.

Should it read:

Los clientes deben de contactar Ramón Vasquez Puyol en la oficina central.

or

Los clientes deben contactar Ramón Vasquez Puyol en la oficina central.

I also have a question regarding degrees.

I know sixth (6th) would be "sexto" and tenth (10th) would be "decimo", but what would sixteenth (16th) be?

Thanks!
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Old 07-02-2008, 04:15 PM   #2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cosme
Los clientes deben de contactar Ramón Vasquez Puyol en la oficina central.

or

Los clientes deben contactar Ramón Vasquez Puyol en la oficina central.

It should be : deben contactar

deber de : expresa duda

Mira , el abrido de Pepe está mojado. Debe de esar lloviendo.

Quote:
a) deber + infinitivo. Denota obligación: «Debo cumplir con mi misión» (Mendoza Satanás [Col. 2002
b) deber de + infinitivo. Denota probabilidad o suposición: «No se oye nada de ruido en la casa. Los viejos deben de haber salido»


Quote:

I also have a question regarding degrees.

I know sixth (6th) would be "sexto" and tenth (10th) would be "decimo", but what would sixteenth (16th) be?

16th= DECIMOSEXTO

Remember though: we do not use this form for dates.
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Los hombres son superiores a las mujeres porque Alá les otorgó la primacia sobre ellas. Portanto, dió a los varones el doble de lo que dió a las mujeres. Los maridos que sufrieran desobediencia de sus mujeres pueden castigarlas: abandonarlas en sus lechos, e incluso golpearlas.
No se legó al hombre mayor calamidad que la mujer."


El Corán (libro sagrado de los musulmanes, recitado por Alá a Maomé en el siglo VI)


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Old 07-02-2008, 04:17 PM   #3
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Hi, Cosme!

This is a common mistake in Spanish... When you use the structure deber + infinitivo, you are always indicating an obligation. This confusion arises out of this other structure deber + de + infinitivo, which refers to a probability: e.g.: debe de tener ochenta años (he/she must be eighty). Therefore, in your example, the correct option would be to use the first structure.

With respect to the other question, "decimosexto" would be the correct word for 16th in Spanish. Note that it is written without
a "tilde", and remember to include a "tilde" in "décimo"

Hope you find it useful!
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Old 07-02-2008, 04:24 PM   #4
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Thumbs up Ordinal numbers

Yes, Exx! You can also say "décimo sexto".

You will find a clear list here: http://buscon.rae.es/dpdI/SrvltConsulta?lema=ordinales.

Good point on dates! We prefer cardinal numbers for dates in Spanish
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Old 07-03-2008, 07:32 AM   #5
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Thank you both for your responses and clarification. Just in time to be sent to the printer!
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Old 07-03-2008, 10:58 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Guadalupe
Yes, Exx! You can also say "décimo sexto".

You will find a clear list here: http://buscon.rae.es/dpdI/SrvltConsulta?lema=ordinales.

Good point on dates! We prefer cardinal numbers for dates in Spanish
Ves, después de escribirlo..ya no me parecía correcto y lo cambié..pero veo que mi instinto me guió bien.jeje

Gracias.
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Los hombres son superiores a las mujeres porque Alá les otorgó la primacia sobre ellas. Portanto, dió a los varones el doble de lo que dió a las mujeres. Los maridos que sufrieran desobediencia de sus mujeres pueden castigarlas: abandonarlas en sus lechos, e incluso golpearlas.
No se legó al hombre mayor calamidad que la mujer."


El Corán (libro sagrado de los musulmanes, recitado por Alá a Maomé en el siglo VI)

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Old 07-03-2008, 11:07 AM   #7
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Hola!
Si bien es cierto que deber + de indica duda o presunción, al menos acá en Buenos Aires no se oye muy seguido. En el uso común, la gente dice, por ejemplo, "Debe estar retrasado por el tránsito". ¿En otros países se usa correctamente "deber de"?
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Old 07-03-2008, 11:34 AM   #8
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Andrea:

Tenés razón en cuanto al uso en Buenos Aires. Sin embargo, mi fuente de consulta fue el "Diccionario de los usos correctos del español" de María Luisa Olsen Serrano de Redonnet y Alicia María Zorrilla de Rodríguez, ambas argentinas, si no me equivoco.

En este diccionario, se detalla que ambos usos invertidos son incorrectos, pero que es más vulgar el uso de "deber+de+infinitivo" para obligación.

Tengo entendido que en España (al menos, la gente con la que yo tengo contacto) se utiliza más la forma "deber+de+infinitivo" para probabilidad. Ya me corregirán si es erróneo...

Así que: o todos los hablamos incorrectamente lo corregimos, o bien, el tiempo dirá si aceptan esta variante para Buenos Aires...
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Old 07-03-2008, 11:37 AM   #9
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Originally Posted by exxcéntrica
Ves, después de escribirlo..ya no me parecía correcto y lo cambié..pero veo que mi instinto me guió bien.jeje

Gracias.

Óle, Exx! Aunque, con el tiempo, podamos amaestrar nuestro instinto, el secreto está siempre en dudar...
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Old 07-03-2008, 11:43 AM   #10
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[/quote]

Así que: o todos los hablamos incorrectamente lo corregimos, o bien, el tiempo dirá si aceptan esta variante para Buenos Aires...[/quote]

Jajaja, creo que va a ser más fácil que la academia acepte la variante rioplatense.
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