mem286

Oh, my... you got a bad rep for that??... I suppose so did Leslie (his was red until yesterday )

IUS... is there a possibility to clarify (in the forum rules or in a thread)when to give positive or negative rep to a post... or poster? so that we all share the same critiria... Thanks

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Mer





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Y me envenenan los besos que voy dando y, sin embargo, cuando duermo sin ti contigo sueño...

kellymellars

Originally Posted by vicente
" If you don't like the language then simply leave the thread but you should not try to censor the forum.

Agree with that.
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IUS

I joined this forum through the "Trusted Translators" site. They seem to be a professional and serious group. I did not think for a minute that they would endorse a blog where the language could become offensive. We are dealing with two different languages and therefore different cultures. It is becoming apparent that curse words are friendly terms in Spain and some latin-American countries. In America these kind of terms of endearment are simply not allowed in professional websites.
People have rights, and just like no one is allowed to blow smoke on your face anymore, in the same manner people should expect to open a translation forum endorsed by "Trusted Translators" and allow their children to read it without having to worry about what we call in the US "obscene language". I understand it's a cultural thing. But since we are dealing with two different languages, and many cultures I think we should be sensitive to cultural sensitivities. A warning indicating the use of language, violence, and ***, is posted in the US before showing anything of this nature. There is no way to know which threads to avoid without a warning.

exxcéntrica

I think we are, Kelly.

Quote:

I did not think for a minute that they would endorse a blog where the language could become offensive.

Kelly, I think we should straighten out terms: this is not a blog. This is a translation forum. In a blog you might be able to see almost anything. I am not a follower of blogs.

In a translation we can find all kind of words. And we must not forget, like in this thread, that people who ASK do not know the meaning.

There are some weirdos, too, who post some words or expressions just for fun, but we do not think this happens here very often.

Quote:

People have rights, and just like no one is allowed to blow smoke on your face anymore, in the same manner people should expect to open a translation forum endorsed by "Trusted Translators" and allow their children to read it without having to worry about what we call in the US "obscene language".

Kelly, smoking is not the issue here.

And then....who will let children read a translation forum??? I think you are missing the point quite drastically: this is a professional translation forum, not an entertainment site for children!

Quote:

A warning indicating the use of language, violence, and ***, is posted in the US before showing anything of this nature. There is no way to know which threads to avoid without a warning.

Can anybody confirm this? I have no idea, but this does not happen in Spain.

And: if you this this web site should be fit for children: now, who will tell you that they won't , just for fun, open, especially the flagged threads???? And how would one be able to avoid that?

I believe the proposal of the flagging system, which I have doubts about now because of the difficulty of its achievement, was directed at adults. Nobody was talking about children on this web till now.

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“Aunque la conducta del marido sea censurable, aunque este se dé a otros amores, la mujer virtuosa debe reverenciarlo como a un dios. Durante la infancia, una mujer debe depender de su padre, al casarse de su marido, si este muere, de sus hijos y si no los tuviera, de su soberano. Una mujer nunca debe gobernarse a sí misma."

Leyes de Manu (Libro Sagrado de la India

mem286

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Mer





_______________________________________________
Y me envenenan los besos que voy dando y, sin embargo, cuando duermo sin ti contigo sueño...

vicente

Quote:

Originally Posted by exxcéntrica [/color]

In the U.S. you cannot avoid vulgar and sexually-oriented language. Our TV and the music preferred by the kids is full of it. This country is as bad as any for exposing our kids to foul language every day. Rap music is their most popular form of music and words like b*tch, pimp, hoe (whore), and a WHOLE lot worse are in these songs and in the vocabulary of any kid in the seventh grade. They hear this stuff everywhere and yes, they are friendly words to our adolescents. They think nothing of calling each other ***** or "hoe". And I think it would astound anybody to hear the other words in their vocabularies.

As for warnings, it is true that if you look very closely and quickly they are there. They might give you a 5 second warning at the start of a movie but if you miss it while you're in the kitchen then that is it. Many movies in the U.S contain the most offensive and vulgar language you could imagine and any unsupervised child with a TV can see these movies at will day or night.

As for violence, well, killing and maiming are nothing to our kids. They see it every day in the movies and in their video games.

Then there are commercials where there are NO warnings. You can be in the middle of watching the news and a commercial for V***gra will come on and it warns you that you should "see a doctor if you have an erection lasting more than four hours"! Or a "male enhancement" commercial talking about enlarging that "certain part of the male body" or a commercial advertising KY jelly and its new "tingling" ingredient for women to use as a lubricant to enhance their "romantic moments". If you watch TV you cannot avoid these sexually-oriented commercials and any young person knows what they are about. You would be naive if you believe they do not.

Nearly every single day I have to erase un-wanted and un-solicited spam emails which advertise p*rn sites. Any computer-literate child can find a p*rn site on his computer in a matter of minutes.

I don't watch that much TV but it has been my personal experience that TV shows and commercials in Mexico and Central America are much less likely to have offensive language and s*x scenes than here in the U.S. In the movies I have seen, most of which are U.S. made and have Spanish sub-titles, they nearly always substitute offensive words with "maldición". Perhaps natives of these countries have a different opinion.

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vicente

kellymellars

I've been busy with relatives, will reply tomorrow. In the meantime this is a website you might want to check out. It would give you an idea of how the government view things in the US. It's from the FCC, the Federal Communications Commission. I have also included an exerpt from the website. Kelly

http://www.fcc.gov/cgb/consumerfacts/obscene.html

FCC; Federal communications commission

Consumer & Governmental Affairs Bureau


Obscene, Indecent, and Profane Broadcasts
Consumer Facts

It’s Against the Law

It is a violation of federal law to air obscene programming at any time. It is also a violation of federal law to air indecent programming or profane language during certain hours. Congress has given the Federal Communications Commission (FCC) the responsibility for administratively enforcing these laws. The FCC may revoke a station license, impose a monetary forfeiture, or issue a warning if a station airs obscene, indecent, or profane material.
--------------------------------------------

Profane Broadcast Restrictions

The FCC has defined profanity as “including language so grossly offensive to members of the public who actually hear it as to amount to a nuisance.”

Like indecency, profane speech is prohibited on broadcast radio and television between the hours of 6 a.m. and 10 p.m.

CarlosRoberto

Hi, Kelly:

I can't but agree with our other friends in this thread about censorship. First and foremost, as Vicente said, if someone asks for a translation of some terms, we should consider that he/she must probably doesn't know their meaning and then cannot possibly understand wheter they are offensive or not.
Then again, as Exx have said, yes, this is a forum in which proffessional translators exchange their expertise, knowledge and even doubts about our proffession, which is the use of different languages. Foul language, obscene words, etc., whether you like it or not, are part of any language, and, according to Octavio Paz, are perhaps the most vital part of language:

"En nuestro lenguaje diario hay un grupo de palabras prohibidas, secretas, sin contenido claro, y a cuya mágica ambigüedad confiamos la expresión de las más brutales o sutiles de nuestras emociones y reacciones [...] Son las malas palabras, único lenguaje vivo en un mundo de vocablos anémicos. La poesía al alcance de todos." (Paz, El laberinto de la soledad, p. 67.)

Finally, who can qualify the quality of language in an international forum, full of exchanges between people from very different countries? I could say that "culo" is an obscene word, but Exx and millions of spaniards would say it's as innocent a word as "nalgas". And the same would happen the other way round. The very words of the FCC can be subject to interpretation: what does "obscene programming" or "profane language" exactly mean? These criteria have always been as subjective as the period in which they are expressed. During the fifties they meant something very different than during the sixties, or the seventies.

I think we should stick to the original idea of these forums, which is to exchange information and expertise about what is, for many of us, our gratest passion: the use and knowledge of language.

Saludos

Mexican Translator

My turn...

Lamento amargamente que el hecho de compartir nuestras inquietudes en este foro, un trabajo tan serio y profesional, se vea viciado con argumentos carentes de la más mínima objetividad.

Debo decir que fuí formado en una de las universidades con mayor prestigio e historia en mi país, (para mí, la mejor del mundo entero), y se me enseñó a apreciar el mundo tal cual es, a decir las cosas como son, y, en caso de tener la imperiosa necesidad de realizar imprecaciones, decirlas con todas sus letras. Debo también confesar que en no pocas ocasiones se me ha solicitado por parte de mis alumnos el significado de algunas obscenidades, a lo que no puedo por ética profesional, negarme a dilucidar, pues mucho me desagradaría que alguien hiciera mofa de su poco conocimiento del lenguaje estudiado.

Referente a mi actividad diversa, encuentro ocasiones en las que deben ser dichas las frases tal y como fueron expresadas. No debo (ni puedo) omitir circunstancias de algún hecho presentado ante los diversos jueces, incluso en los asuntos donde son proferidas vulgaridades, deben éstas ser leídas en voz alta dentro del juzgado, frente a Su Señoría, en audiencia pública.

Recuerdo también, dada la educación libre de prejuicios y absurdos, que un buen porcentaje de mis mejores maestros, utilizaban lenguaje soez dentro del aula, y nunca y de ninguna manera, alguien sintió ofendidos sus castos oídos, sino que, por el contrario, tuvimos la oportunidad de apreciar y aprender de la universalidad.

(Hasta aquí me he quedado sin ideas, quizá suene discordante mi comentario, pero espero sirva para hacer patente mi inconformidad con semejantes absurdos. No es, ni ha sido mi intención entrar en polémica con nadie, pero en el dado caso de que alguien tuviera la inquietud de analizar desde perspectivas diferentes algún punto de vista, le pido continuar en el presente hilo.)

Saludos al mundo desde Michoacán, tierra libre de prejuicios y sandeces ideológicas.

S.S. David Huerta.

kellymellars

ScottJ

The FCC only governs public broadcasts, meaning it has NO power over cable television and NO power over the internet. The reasons that cable television is not awash in curse words and naked parts are sponsors. However, there has been an interesting divergence over the past ten years where cable tv has gotten more raunchy AND certain figures have seen it necessary to limit what can be shown or displayed on the air (most famously in the Janet Jackson case...)